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November 03, 2004


Stefanie Murray

I write this with absolute respect for your contributions and commitment, and have no wish to offend you or disrespect your justifiable fury.

And you are right that millions and millions of Americans chose the option of lies, graft, greed, corruption, and bigotry. This is not ameliorated by the fact that many many did so in absolute denial that that was what they were doing.

But millions and millions more made the other choice. And they, we, all need each other to stay and fight.

Ampersand has a good post on this, if you care to read it.

Again, all thanks and respect for what you have done. And no offense intended.


A number of people on my LJ friends list have answered this question, at least in their view of things. I won't attempt to summarize them here, there are several differing takes on this question.

Myself, back in the summer of 2001 I asked those at a social gathering "so is this decade going to resemble the `60s". I have to say that it is doing so, it's just that Nixon showed up 8 years early.

The US may be going be in one of its swings into conservative religious views. IT has happened before, sometimes for a decade or so, sometimes for longer. England showed similar cycles, Elizabethan to Puritan to Regency to Victorian...

Jill Smith

Mary Kay, you have every right to do exactly as you and Jordin choose.

But the rest of us who are staying on to continue the fight would be poorer for your absence.

John and I send our best wishes to your family. I know it's inadequate - I just don't know what else to say.


Do not tell me how much worse the politics and policies of Ireland and/or the EU are. They are not the politics and policies of my country and my fellow citizens and thus do not break my heart.

This is the crux of it, for me. Even if I emigrated, America would still be my country and Americans would still be my fellow citizens - and what they've done would still break my heart. I cannot outrun my feelings of sorrow and shame. They would accompany me wherever I might flee.


Any decision you make is yours and yours alone, and you are completely entitled to your feelings.

I think you should stay because we need people like you to inspire others to get involved. Make no mistake; you have been an inspiration to me. It's all about getting involved.

We won't win every battle. We have a more difficult struggle because we are less willing to be opportunistic and manipulative than the Republicans. Maybe this is to our disadvantage, but I'd like to believe that its in our advantage in the long term.

Thank you once again for all of your efforts. They were not for naught.


I've known you for well over 20 years -- though not as "Scorpio", of course! I think that you probably believe as I do -- "my country right or wrong, and right now it's as wrong as I wnat to see it get."

I leapt down someone's throat, telling him that a vote for Bush was a vote for torture. I still believe that.

I asked a colleague if this time she voted for the man who wants to see her barefoot, pregnant, and unemployed, and she said she did not this time because he was too scary.

Remember, Nixon won a landslide and was impeached not too much later. The Plame investigation is still out, and many other crimes are being investigated. The best thing that could happen would be the airing of the rest of the Abu Ghraib material. That would blast these devils back into the hell they emerged from.

Most of Bush's prominent cabinet members are departing. I expect that several of the will be indicted in the future. Maybe my country can right its wrongs. If its good citizens bail -- well, maybe others will find their spines.

But consider sticking around for the reckoning. I expect that sooner or later there will be one.


Mary Kay

Scorpio: I'm intrigued; I had no idea. I've identified where you live by stuff in your blog and also the fact that you're probably female. But 20 years ago is when I left that general part of the country to move to Ohio. Wanna give me a hint? Or just tell me?



Well, I'm not gonna get a room beneath yours at a con again!!



Mary Kay

Hey! SO not my fault! Really.

MKK--still trying to live it down all these years later


The mention of Nixon is appropriate; there are at least 3 reports whose release were postponed ntil after the elections. THe Iraqi privional government is hedging on the election date there. There's still a good percentage of the civilian population trapped in Falluja, in the middle of the predicted fight between the Marines and the insurgents; this could be very messy.

The fall in the dollar isn't expect to give a large boost to the US economy, as we manufacture much less in the country these days. The retailers are worried about holidays sales. Not looking too bright on that front,

Opposition to the US policies is starting to take an economic toll, as US branded goods are becoming less desirable; local and Chinese competitors are starting to take a cut.

Two years from now, Our Beloved Leader may find that there was a high interest rate on that political capital he borrowd, and the loan is due.

Randolph Fritz

Well, I'd miss you as someone who fought the good fight. I'm really impressed with the way you are willing to engage the radical right. But that said, it may be wise to at least make sure your passport it up-to-date. And make sure some of your investments are not in dollar-denominated securities.

Randolph Fritz

And Paul Krugman, today, may have written the best post-election article of any I've seen yet.

"This election did not prove the Republicans unbeatable. Mr. Bush did not win in a landslide. Without the fading but still potent aura of 9/11, when the nation was ready to rally around any leader, he wouldn't have won at all. And future events will almost surely offer opportunities for a Democratic comeback."

Read the rest.

Kathryn Cramer

Ireland's a nice place. But really there's no place in the world you can get away from GWB.

Hamilton Lovecraft

I've said this several times in several venues: you can stay and be America's conscience, or leave and be America's victim.

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